forfour.co.uk
Forum => General Smart Chat => Topic started by: Brabs on February 06, 2020, 05:56:13 PM
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Oil & filter change on my brilliant 1.1 Passion today. It really is a little gem of a car. Anyhow, bearing in mind the recent government announcement I’ve got to make it last until at least 2035! 🙄😀
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there will still be ICE cars on the road, just thee wont be any ICE cars that will be registered after 2035
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.. still cant believe that utter nonsense going on with ban on fossil fuel cars.. Ban the darn Cruiser ships floating around.. Norway will ban FF cars 2025
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.. still cant believe that utter nonsense going on with ban on fossil fuel cars.. Ban the darn Cruiser ships floating around.. Norway will ban FF cars 2025
Yep, plus 1000’s of aircraft each day! 🙄😖
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Gas heating for new houses will be banned by 2025, the Chancellor has said,
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OK...let's get back on topic here....
which was "Gotta make them last !" namely about the ForFour
without any politics etc.
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If I won the lottery, I'd convert my forfour to a custom electric vehicle.
I know, I know - I could just buy a tesla if I had miiiiiilions, but it would be an awesome project all the same.
I suppose once we are truly into the FF car ban, around 2035 or so, more and more custom companies will be doing conversions. They already do a lot of custom EV conversions in the US. The Teslonda is bats**t crazy but there are more 'pedestrian' conversions out there already.
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im sort of with El Tel. if i came into money, id send my SB3 to brabus in Bottrop and get it nut and bolt restored, and buy a 454 with a knackered engine and send that to brabus and get them to convert it to an EV.
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Zytek at one time developed a hybrid 454....diesel and electric.
Alex and I both posted links to an aarticle about it that
was quite informative with decent pictures/photo's....however,
the link we provided is no longer 'valid' (page error 404).
Such a shame...but I have managed to dig up another link
that is still available with information, but only one picture :'(
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/12/zytek_introduce.html
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Very interesting concept. I wonder what happened to the actual cars? With what is known with current EV/hybrid conversions i imagine it would be more efficient and economical done now.
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Thinks have moved on zeons since then.
Purpose designed platforms are always going to be way better than converted ICE vehicles.
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i agree with you, Coverman, when you sat purpose built EV platforms will be better than conventional platforms but given how flat the floor is on the 454, i think it it would make a good EV. look at the Polestar 2, they used the platform on which the XC40 is built on and adapted the batteries and motors to suit. the I-Pace... it used the platform the XE, XF and F-Pace are built on. even the original Mini is being converted to electric by specialist companies, its only time before someone converts a 454 to electric.
anyway we digress... trying to keep the 454 on the road as long as possible will become harder, if its used as a daily driver, as most of us do. its only a matter of time before most are either scrapped (as a few have been done), or they will be locked up and used occasionally like classic Mercs, Jags and the like.
its owners and enthusiasts like us, that know how special they are, will keep them going and as numbers start to dwindle, prices will eventually start going up in the UK and catch up with the EU market prices.
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I don't think that prices will ever catch up.wirh Europe. They were not very popular at all in Britain when new, compared to how they sold in Europe. If you look at the trend in pricing for (what were everyday) 40-50 year old cars in Britain, it is old Ford Escorts and Cortinas and Capris and Fiestas( in their hotter variants) that are really in demand , and also Minis, and the other mundanery lags way behind price wise. Specialist firms are supplying parts and panels for Fords and Minis which helps the pricing enormously. I cannot imagine that many young eoplevof today dreamt of having a 454 like the young people of 30 or more years ago dreamt of having an Escort Twincamm or a 1275 Cooper.
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Agreed to some extent....
But eventually, the very rarety of the likes of the Brabus 454 will
eventually filter trough, collectors will scramble for them, and
then the prices will sky rocket.
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once the rarity of the brabus is noticed and prices start going up, im sure it will have a knock on effect on the non-brabus variants to some extent... and it will DEFINATLY help the future values of my SB3 ;)
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I’d defo convert the Brabus to electric
We’ve been fighting for years to get more that 220bhp reliably and EV would make the car soooooo fast
JJ
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I read a very interesting article on upcoming battery tech (really belongs on the EV thread but unfortunately that was locked....) however, since we are mentioning battery conversions, its on topic here:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/19/electric-car-batteries-race-ahead-with-five-minute-charging-times
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We’ve been fighting for years to get more that 220bhp reliably and EV would make the car soooooo fast
Why that? Its not so difficult to get more power from a turbocharged engine. But of course you get to the point where stock internals are going to end. But i run more then 220HP even with stock internal / stock turbo. Next step of course forged engine and hybrid turbo.
As for the EV sh*t, dont forget:
- HP makes a car on straight line faster, weight makes it everywhere faster and EV ist weight
- FullPull on EV is going always to end with temperature end. See the famous Nürnburgring run from Porsche Tacan where it gets overheated and then no power anymore. Its common on all Cars with EV
Never ever would gain that amount of weight on a light car which is the main benefit on the Smart.
Best regards
Bari
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And exactly how would one control all the torque from a powerful EV simple installation in a 454? It's difficult enough with a tuned turbo ICE to get the power down off the line, and to power the car out of a tight slow corner.
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Sure a point too, but not so grave.
First of all: Even me dont have problems with traction, cause many depends on mechanical traction through suspension, suspension settings, tyres and differential. When i compare the stock crap brabus suspension then it is a big difference of traction to a good full adjustable suspension.
If you push the car (me not cause only city driver), then of course SemiSlicks like Federal 595 is on your bucket list. With stock turbo / stock engine internals and as a said a good fully adjustable suspension you will not be able to have traction loss.
Old SingleTurboCharger dont have linear response. We all know what it does when turbo kicks in (not like vtec kicked in :P).
On EV you have linear responsiveness and you can programm it like you want. Low torque on low kmh - FullPull at higher values, combination with traction control etc. That isnt a problem / much better to avoid or solve then with a old turbocharger which everything depends on mechanical traction.
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And exactly how would one control all the torque from a powerful EV simple installation in a 454? It's difficult enough with a tuned turbo ICE to get the power down off the line, and to power the car out of a tight slow corner.
I have no experience or special knowledge of this at all, but I have seen EV conversions using the original gearbox, and torque etc can all be electronically limited so as not to blow the cogs out of your converted car.
I am absolutely totally 100% certain there is a good answer to your question, given that EV conversions are a growing business and no doubt there are, and will be, more and more turnkey solutions for this kind of thing.
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With an EV motor maximum torque is at lock, hence the anticipated problem of torque steer being exaggarated on the 454.Ok, easy to modulate an EV with a gentle right foot but then the acceleration away from rest will be disappointing. And incidentally the Federal 595 are no longer ???by any means the best tyre for AutoX and road use.
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coverman, you do realise that the accelerator pedal isnt an on off switch on an EV?! you could class it as a variable resistor, as in the more you press it, the more electricity will flow to the motor(s)
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One has to overcome the maximum torque at lock problem for EVs however one depresses the accelerator, not an issue with an ICE but still even a standard Brabus suffers from torque steer unless gently pedalled away from the line.Considering that the maximum performance advantage of an EV is in low speed acceleration the entire drive line & suspension of a 454 should be redesigned to cope with EV propulsion and weight distribution change: a big task to add to the definitely not simple integrating of the motor and battery control with the existing canbus electronics.Much simpler to buy an existing electric car, and cheaper too unless one values one's time at pence per hour.
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Guys who build race cars for fun rather than profit might go so far.
The acceleration curve could be electronically limited to smoothly accelerate to around the edge of what the transmission can take. As we know from G's posts about the S2 race car, even cryogenically hardened drive shafts can break under too much torque.
I agree that the mind blowing torque of which electric motors are capable is best put through the rear wheels, or all 4 wheels. Torque steer like that is presumably dangerous. Perhaps the 454 (or any front wheel drive) isn't the best candidate for 'performance' EV conversion.
However I still reckon it could be done. Either as a super efficient town car, limited to prevent issues with torque steer or breaking cogs, or with a complete drivetrain replacement - But in the latter case it's definitely for fun, not for profit.
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The Renault Zoe amongst others already exists to fulfill the need for an electric city car. Why reinvent the wheel?
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True, but some people just do. By that standard, the Teslonda is a pointless car, why not just buy a Tesla?
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Indeed
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By that standard, the Teslonda is a pointless car, why not just buy a Tesla?
Because you could buy a Honda.
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Solid state batteries will increase charge capacity and reduce charge times dramatically.
The average journey in a car is well within the range of even a small EV
sometimes I need to move house but I don’t buy a car that is capable of that
Sometimes I do a track day but I don’t buy a car that is capable of that as well.
When we moved from horses to cars I know the same arguments would have come up then
I agree with you mr Singh - the throttle is your friend for controlling torque :)
If I could convert my Brabus to even have 100miles range I’d love that.
Unfortunately the chassis of the ForFour doesn’t allow much scope for things.
Direct drive wheels could be the biggest step for EV conversions
I’m pretty sure the new UPS vans have the motors on 4 corners allowing a nice flat low load bay
JJ
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The Renault Zoe amongst others already exists to fulfill the need for an electric city car. Why reinvent the wheel?
Check this out: some people convert classics cos they love them...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVtOss1U7_s
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I’ve seen a few vw campers converted
I think body treatment and painting is so much better these days
I picture it like back to the future 2 where they do hover conversions
Yes please
Petrol will be around for a long time yet (or bio fuels) so the biggest impact will be available spares
No one is gonna keep investing in smart ForFour parts unfortunately
But there are plenty out there to scavenge from
Re-use, reduce, recycle
JJ
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Purely for info, not having a pop! 😉
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55894912
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Agreed and it’s not coherent BUT most people charge at home.
If you are travelling long distance all the motorway services have them
JJ
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....it’s not coherent BUT most people charge at home.....
True...but then MOST people who can afford EV's don't live
in homes that have the facilities to park close to them to plug
in an EV. Millions live where there is little if no off-street parking
and where they could 'possibly' charge up if there were provision
to do so...be that in areas of many large cities, let alone the
suburbs or small towns, or even the many mews in central London.
There are also many many residential estates with no garages,
especially for those who live in flats/tower blocks.
The statistics in that link clearly state that there is a massive
target that will need to be achieved before there is the coverage
that THEY think would be required, but then I guarantee it still
won't be the overage that MOST people would find acceptable.
That's my view on it....some might not agree, so be it.
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Conversely if you live in a city then there are chargers everywhere - most lidl now have rapid chargers.
Of course on street charging is hard
Just like trying to run your smart car on v power if you live in the wilds ;)
JJ
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Interesting company
https://www.everrati.com/
JJ
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........If I could convert my Brabus to even have 100miles range I’d love that.
Unfortunately the chassis of the ForFour doesn’t allow much scope for things.........
I am not a chassis expert andneither are you, and at the time of your post I would
have tended to agreed with you, But time has moved on, so I have to say that now
I no longer agree with you after seeing what just a few changes to the suspension
set up made to the performance né handling and lap times of the S2smartsRacing
Brabus over the last year and a bit.
Lap times started to tumble and they have continued to do so with each progressive
change, enhancement, and adjustment right up to the present day.
So, IF anyone were to convert a 454 to EV, then most definitely the chassis
CAN be adapted; after all the chassis itself is steel which can be cut/welded etc;
and together with suspension modifications (fully adjustable coilovers etc)
any issues such as torque steer can be 'dialled out', coupling them in with
control of the electronics/power as well, so do not rule out the possibilities.
However.....like all the hundreds of EV conversions (withj their challenges)
that have and are being carried out around the world on ICE engined vehicles
(as shown and seen on TV), it does require time and money.
But anything is possible, as they say.
Who knows...in 5 years and the advances being made in 3D printing for example..
who is to say that someone won't be able to produce replica 454 body panels ?
In fact saying that, I remember not that long ago seeing something on TV or
maybe YouTube...of a guy that is 3D printing his own car !