forfour.co.uk
Forum => General Smart Chat => Topic started by: Problemchild on August 24, 2019, 05:41:33 AM
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My dad has just picked up Evilution’s diesel 451 cabrio
I love it :)
Makes me smile when I drive it
Flappy paddles
Lowered
T4P Remap
(https://i.imgur.com/caxRUqX.jpg)
I can’t wait to buy it off him
JJ
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A bit of change of path for you after extrolling the virtues of EV's...
and it's a diesel to boot ! Oh well...just goes to prove that once
you have a Smart (no matter which one) it really is 'smiles for miles'.
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but its not electric... you like electric now remember ;)
wouldn't mind a CDi IF it had 6 gears.
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Presume you are talking 6 gears in a 451......
(knowing as you do that the 454 CDi AMT has 6 )
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Yeah 5 gears in this
I don’t spout about EVs over petrols - I push back on all the mid information people spout ;)
I still have a 3.0ltr 6 cylinder diesel and a 25mpg petrol ;)
Anyway, just put the old 450 rear speakers in the 451 - but tighter but hey
(https://i.imgur.com/7BLbkji.jpg)
JJ
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the 450 had 6 gears where as the 451 has 5... which means the 450 is better on fuel than the 451.
I know why smart dropped the 6th gear but its a step back to me.
JJ... we were jokings. ;D
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I know you were haha
Dad is getting 70mpg around town
(https://i.imgur.com/49skl4b.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b1IolRm.jpg)
JJ
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the 450 had 6 gears where as the 451 has 5... which means the 450 is better on fuel than the 451.
The old petrol 700cc engine didn't meet the latest emission regs hence
the change to the larger 999cc. The 999cc is also a far stronger engine
and 'outlives' the 700cc easily.
The CDi engine at 800cc was unchanged as it was uprated to meet the
latest emission regs during it's lifecycle.
The other factor for the lower mpg of the 451 is that it is a bigger and
heavier car, but the benefits are that it has a far better ride and the
handling is also much better too.
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Indeed G. The Mitsubishi engines fitted to forfour and fortwo smarts do seem to be strong units. I’ve seen many of both types for sale with well over 100,000 miles. My fantastic 1.1 Passion forfour is fast approaching 100,000 and runs as well as the day I bought it. No unusual noises, uses absolutely no oil and on a recent return trip to Northampton from Devon gave me a genuine, mathematically calculated 57 mpg, driving at the legal limit on motorways. Brilliant car. 😉
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Mine has 97k km, serviced just over a year ago and oil level hasn't moved. Very well built and reliable engines.
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The old petrol 700cc engine didn't meet the latest emission regs hence
the change to the larger 999cc. The 999cc is also a far stronger engine
and 'outlives' the 700cc easily.
The CDi engine at 800cc was unchanged as it was uprated to meet the
latest emission regs during it's lifecycle.
The other factor for the lower mpg of the 451 is that it is a bigger and
heavier car, but the benefits are that it has a far better ride and the
handling is also much better too.
I know why Smart went away from there own built petrol engines, I am also aware that the CDi is the same engine as in the 450 BUT the 451 CDi still has 5 gears over the 450 CDi having 6. if the 451 had 6 gears over 5, it would be more economical than it currently is
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The car was designed as a toen car with at most a maximum
of around 90mph, the Brabus being the sporty exception to that.
6 gears were an unnecessary expense especially as the 999cc
engine had more than sufficient torque to pull 5th gear to the
speed of the model brief...including the Brabus.
Add to that, that Smart had been the recipient of so much negative
feedback on the 450 due to the 'nodding donkey' ride that was down
to the constant changing between the short spaced gears necessary
to permit the car to reach its design speed.
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It wouldn’t surprise me if 5th was the same as 6th
Like G said, bigger engine = more torque so less need for many tiny steps between lowest and highest ratio.
JJ
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but the CDi isn't a 'bigger' engine. its the same engine as was fitted to the 450 and having driven a 451 CDi when they were launched, the revs at 70 were at 2,500 rpm in 5th, in sure if it had a 6th gear they would sit lower.
think about it, the forfour manual is less economical than the AMT... care to guess why?
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I have a 2001 450 CDI being put back together at the moment. I do seem to recall 70mph in that thing in 6th gear was ~2,000rpm. I would think there was a different map applied to the 451 CDI's ECU to account for the missing gear but even then, the power difference is not that great between the two models.
The 451 CDI, when I test drove a cabriolet ages ago, did feel somewhat more nippier than the 450. The ratios in the gearbox must account for some of that.
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mr.singh, I did tend to agree with your thoughts at one time
as to why they reverted to 5 gears in the 451 over the 6 of the original 450,
but then I found that when I dove Rob of S2's own 450 CDi it ran out of
'pull' at around 70 but 'pulled' thru it if I changed down to 5th.
So, one can see why the change of thought and development at Smart
brought about the 5 gears in the later 451. Torque suited it better too,
and let's face it...it wasn't designed to be a motorway cruiser, it was
designed as a Town Car.
As for the 454 argument over the 5 speed manual versus the 6 speed
AMT.....I have both, and I have to admit that if the AMT had instead
been a 5 speed then there would be quite a noticeable step in ratios
when going up or down through the gears as it does not have the 'luxury'
of fluid dampening flywheel.
As the tranmission was shared with Mitsubishi I feel sure that both
compaines looked into every aspect of 5 versus 6 speeds for the AMT
on the Colt/ForFour issue and for whatever reasons the 6 speed won.
As for it being a tad more economical than the manual....just lucky
with the way it turned out I am inclined to think.