forfour.co.uk
Forum => General Smart Chat => Topic started by: FireFlower on March 04, 2015, 12:57:01 PM
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(http://hal.garde.fi/~fireflower/kuvia/auto/smaller_pics/forfour_gen1_gen2.JPG)
Test driven 4th May 2015
Why to test drive it: I got an invite from Smart (Mercedes) for a test drive and I own older generation ForFour, so of course I was interested how good it can be.
Car specifications
Smart ForFour 2014-2015 (2nd generation)
Engine: Renault H-type I3 999cm3, 52kW, 71 HP, Petrol (CO2: 97g/100km)
Economy: 4.2l/100km (67 MPG)
Transmission: 5-speed manual
Layout: Rear-wheel-drive, Left-hand-drive
Model: Passion (Extras: Panorama sunroof, lockable glove box, led & sensor light package, front fog lights, extra dials, black/orange tridion, passion equipment level, sport package, electronically adjustable side mirrors)
Length / axle-base: 3.49m / 2.49m
Width / height: 1.64m / 1.55m
Weight: 980 kg
Smart ForFour 2004-2006 (1st gen)
Engine: Mitsubishi 4A9 1330cm3 70 kW, 95 HP, Petrol (CO2 138g/100km)
Economy: 5.8l/100km (49 MPG)
transmission: Getrag 452 5-speed manual
Layout: Front-wheel drive, Left-hand-drive
Model: Passion (Fog lights, rubber carpet)
Length / axle-basei: 3.72m / 2.50m
Width / Height: 1.68m / 1.45m
Weight: 980 kg
Before the test drive
I bought my first generation Smart Forfour at january 2014 and I am 3rd or 4th owner of the car. I have driven it about 30,000 kilometers in one year and I know it is not in perfect shape. Anyway during 2014 I watched online stream when they officially announced 2nd generation ForFour and showed it little bit. I was very impressed how agile and how small the turning circle was. Could the almost perfect car be a little bit more perfect? Sure looks like it! Soon afterwards I started to read conversations and reviews about it. they were had opinions on the same areas. One praised and other gave his piece of mind. Well all of them compared it to its competitors but can it beat its father? Well time to find out is the new ForFour even better car or something else.
Towards the test drive!
After small formalities I was sitting behind the wheel. Presenter just said to me only difference with generation one is that this is rear-wheel-driven and enjoy test drive. Okay sounds promising, doesn’t it? Well when I was trying to adjust comfortable driving position with good view to the road I found a problem, and I hadn’t even started the car yet. Clutch foot rest place is not far enough, my knee was bent when I have good view and pretty comfortable position. Okay that is not good for a long distance drive. I am just average, 179 cm (5 ft and 10.5”), and the car interior feels a bit small on driver’s seat. Basically the foot rest shouldn’t be on same level as pedals. Other thing that was weird that ceiling was pretty close to my head and rear mirror blocked my view almost completely to assistant driver’s side.
Hit the road jack!
My test drive vehicle had a three cylinder engine (surprise to anyone anymore?) which start-up sounded like truck [me gusta feel]. To get rolling was easy thanks to similar hill-assistant feature found on older model also which actually works on flat ground also, revs go a bit higher when you find clutch biting point and off you go.
Now the wheel looks sporty (sport package wheel? I don’t know haven’t received brochure yet!) and is a bit oversized but it feels so good! Buttons are reachable with thumbs and don’t feel bad at all. Wish I could steal this wheel and install on mine.. (note to self: check will it fit). Brake assistant is even more pissed than before. Brakes are on-off! I don’t know is it because car hasn’t been driven so much yet or what but I would like to have a bit more control with brakes. Power steering is much better than before, it feels light but it is not weightless either, yes it is nicely balanced. (Is it still electrical?).
The turning radius, oh boy, I think I could do a triangle turn on single lane cabin road with this, it was just so small! I Loved it! Well after a bit circling around the city I was ready to handle the car with any kind situation so it was time to head to a motorway! Sadly because of the winter I can’t test drive it without 120km/h (75mph) so it was just 100 km/h (62 mph) test. Well car went straight without guiding and reaches 80 km/h fairly fast (50 mp/h). Accelerating from 80km/h to 100km/h takes almost same time as going from 0km/h to 80km/h, yes engine is not very powerful but it keeps its speed nicely when you reach it.
Road noise was a bit louder than older generation but it might be caused by studded tires where my car has non-studded tires. Engine noise is louder inside cabin, it doesn’t sound awful but might annoy somebody. Also feedback from road is same as in older generation (sport package might cause it, different suspension, I will tell you more when I get the brochure) so drive comfort might not be that great on rough roads.
Road performance is almost better in every aspect except acceleration, but we can save more fuel if we can sacrifice a few dozen seconds during acceleration. Only problem is that you will very easily ride the clutch in this car if you become lazy (yes you have to lift leg every time, instead just pivoting it when you use clutch)
Interior, gadgets, etc
Lights are automatic in this specific car (led & sensors package) so basically when it gets dark it should turn on the headlights instead just daylight running lights. Sadly I didn’t have time to test these functions and it wasn’t dark enough to see are headlights better.
Car’s speedometer is very big, half circle covering half of the dash panel behind the wheel. I don’t know what design idea it is but the speedometer’s glass was magnifying and caused me some nausea. In same area we also have 8.9cm (don’t ask why it ain’t in inches) full color screen that shows onboard computer functions such as current drive statistics, coolant temperature, fuel economy, economy level percentage, on board diagnostic etc.
Fuel economy was around 4.8l/100km for my test drive and it needed 4.2l/100km for 60 km/h, 4.8l/100km for 80km/h and 5.7l/100km for 100 km/h. I think average 4.2l/100km might be achievable if you complete economy level percentage info to 100% meaning you get shifting perfect, acceleration perfect and anticipation perfect which are displayed by bars how good you’re doing. There is a very small arrow showing when you should shift up or down and I noticed it when I close to finish my test drive.
Interior feels fresh and yet nostalgic if you have been sitting in 80’s and 90’s cars and it a bit looks like sculpture. Sadly maestro was sculpting the statue in corner and didn’t finish the other half. Generally the interior is mixture of fake leather, plastic and fabric.
So we had our panorama sunroof but it was small! The windows are much smaller than they were in predecessor but you see through them just fine. They improved sun covers a bit that you pull out but nothing major happened there.
Front seats feel fine and supporting but I didn’t have that much options to adjust it. Just basic ones and I even forgot to check will they flip forward like in “lounge concept”. You can adjust height, distance. Seat heating button is mounted on seat next to the door. Back seats are static, you cannot adjust them any other way than just increase trunk storage capacity by folding them. This is one of the reasons where new ForFour goes badly wrong. Adults over 170cm (5 feet and 7 inches) cannot sit there without tilting their heads. It is very cramped and even a teenager might feel it cramped. Distance adjust would have made this car very nice but without it becomes just extended fortwo where you have just increased storage for luggage. So name should be ForTwo and two halfs. This critical flaw will make new forfour a flop. (Note: This is my opinion, I wouldn’t buy it because I cannot take adult friends with me. Here average height is around 180cm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world)
Almost forgot to mention, rear seats windows are not foldable but instead they have a lever to open them a bit, feels pretty retro.
The dash, well like in older model we still have fabric dash cover but it is much rougher and has bumpy pattern which I think will make it harder to clean. At middle console we have our radio or 7” touch screen media center. Mine had just regular cheap shiny plastic radio which shows fingerprints quite clearly if it was black, like it was in this car. Basic radio has AUX, USB and bluetooth connections and stock speakers play loud and clear without distortion. I tried bass boost on / off but didn’t hear any difference. The radio hops out of the dash like a splash but there is a lot wasted potential. Above radio there is no way to storage anything which would have been perfect place to place your phone and small stuff but no. Now it is just wasted space.
The glove box is very small, it can hold car binder and a few small object like pens and then it would be full. Nothing neat in there. Under the gear stick we have small drawer (factory option?) where you can store candy, USB stick, pens. It doesn’t anymore have small trays on dash and door pockets are smaller also. Generally storage for small items is more limited but I will get back to this when I get brochure to see are there factory options to get more storage drawers or nets. Small neat feature is a double coin holder next to gear stick, nice way to store a couple of coins for parking meter.
Trunk seems to have open and close button on key but it didn’t work (factory option perhaps?) or I did something wrong when I tried to use it. Tailgate button can be found at the very bottom of the door. Anyway there is no wind deflector to keep tailgate cleaner and after 20km test driving on paved road it was already pretty dirty so no improvement there. Trunk is very small thanks to engine being underneath it. It can hold two luggage cases and maybe a few smaller items but thats about it without folding rear seats.
Last things that I can remember is that 12 volt power socket is behind hand brake at the very middle of the cabin. Why it is there? Are there any advantages for that? The key is not foldable and has three buttons, lock, unlock, open and close trunk.
Last thing I can mention that I can mention that air condition panel looks like retro radio but it again has that magnifying glass. Is this the new trend? Magnifying glasses everywhere? Anyway buttons are pretty far and if you need to adjust the blow settings you need to lean forward and perhaps take your eyes of the road completely if you haven’t memorized button order.
Summary
Good:
- Car goes where it should go without constant adjustment
- Wheel feels and looks nice
- Nice looking interior
- Better power steering
- Good audio playback and connections
- Very small turning circle
- Agile
- Fuel economy
Cons:
- Back seat is for children only
- Back seat doesn’t have distance adjustment
- Clutch foot rest place is awkward
- Amount of small item storage space and their size
- Engine power limits during accelerations
- Front bumper is tacky
- Interior feels cramped compared to predecessor
- Rear mirror position
- Why that two color tridion theme doesn't connect on bonnet like in old ForFour? Why?
Last words
We know why 1st generation ForFour flopped and production was stopped but did they learn from past mistakes and advantages? Well, you take one step forward and a few steps backwards, actually they slided backwards. What made old ForFour stand out very nicely was folding back seats and distance adjustment and they dropped one of the things and ended up with half-assed ForFour. With distance adjustment even adults would have been travel in back seats, now they simply physically can’t.
I loved the new drive experience that RWD, power steering and wheel offered but just clutch foot rest design… UGH! Almost perfect and this kind flaw. Such a pity
Well I truly believe Twingo offered a nice platform to do ForFour. I wonder would it had been too hard to just move engine to rear, keep old ForFour interior volume specs and cut that front. Sadly new ForFour interior is much smaller than old one even though physical changes to sizes are not that great outside.
Well I fear new ForFour will flop (again) but they could still save it by redesigning rear seats to be similar like in older model and fixing that clutch foot resting place.
These were my opinions, I hope you liked them and take some of the opinions with grain of salt. (Such as front bumper is tacky).
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what is the kW equivalent on BHP.
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52 kW = 71 HP, 70kW = 95HP
Generally: 1 HP = 0.746 kW (approx)
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so your comparing a 1.0 gen 2 with a 1.3 gen 1. not really a good comparison if you ask me.
a 1.1 gen 1 would be a closer comparison to the 1.0 gen 2
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Trust me, the engine ain't problem... Trust me
I will edit first post tomorrow and hopefully you guys will understand how [beeeeeeeeep] the car is.
Edit: Okay good thing: The wheel is awesome!
Edit2: Hey, I got an argument from another forum: it is stupid to compare B-segment car to A-segment car... okay, let me get my glasses...
A-segment: Length up to 3700mm (Gen 1: 3720mm; Gen 2: 3490mm), B segment: Up to 4400mm
So basically our old gen 1 is just 2cm too long to fit into A-segment... If our frontal bumber would be just 2 cm shorter...
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so your comparing a 1.0 gen 2 with a 1.3 gen 1. not really a good comparison if you ask me.
a 1.1 gen 1 would be a closer comparison to the 1.0 gen 2
no I dont think he's comparing it.... he sounds like he's buying it
I like the new shape, like a mini suv. Tall grill, good stance. The old one looks obese in comparison. A bit balloony with wheels too deep in the shell
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The non turbo 453 is good for town driving. The turbo better open road. The 1.0 is as good (actually better) to drive than my 1.2 fiat 500
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..... like a mini suv. Tall grill, good stance.
A BMini is the real obese one. It is no longer a 'Mini'...it is bigger than
the old maxi used to be...it's not far short of being bigger than the
Gen1 ForFour...so it's a 'Mini' in name only, ok I accept that, but I'd
rather it were called something else other than a 'Mini'.
The countryman version (and a few otheres) really look like they've
been on steroids..or maybe you could say they've been given a
'lifestyle' injection or drink.... like the Jeckyl nd Hyde character in
the film League of Extraordinary Gentlemen ! Geerrooooosssss
and so f'ugly.
.....The old one looks obese in comparison. A bit balloony with wheels too deep in the shell...
2 entirely different designs...so you really can't say it is obese.
Besides, why is it that the reallly good looking cars that are of
a smooth streamlined and flowing design look 'similar' to it.
On a different note....why are so many cars now being made to look
so dam aggressive ? Take the Merc's...gone from boxy to smooth
to sharp edges and snarly 'bite ya head off' radiator grills.
Even the smooth Audi has a 'mouth'/grill like a trawling whale !
And the vauxhalls look like they have a parrots beak.
All rather ugly in my eyes.
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sharp edges and snarly 'bite ya head off' radiator grills.
Even the smooth Audi has a 'mouth'/grill like a trawling whale !
And the vauxhalls look like they have a parrots beak.
All rather ugly in my eyes.
So true. The new Lexus NX and latest Honda Civic look like Godzilla and a samurai warrior lol
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Updated, might have some spelling mistakes / odd words / etc
Just inform me and I will fix them :)
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On-off brakes are a renault trait, as is the high clutch biting point... I drove a megane, put it in gear 3 times before I realised that I wasn't releasing the clutch enough and that's why the car wouldn't move off... then nose-dived when I touched the brake pedal.
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I didn't have problem with clutch release, just that I have to keep my leg bent and move it every time I want to use clutch instead just pivoting it with heel. If you do not move your leg you can easily start riding the clutch and swapping clutch every 20,000 - 30,000 miles.
Well what do you think will be first guide for Gen 2?
My own bet is brake guide
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Well what do you think will be first guide for Gen 2 ?
Here's my first guide for a Gen2 owner...... the link to www.webuyanycar.com
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Here's my first guide for a Gen2 owner...... the link to www.webuyanycar.com
Got to admit .... That ^ actually made laugh when I read it ..... ;D , from that I'd say you just might be thinking of sticking with the original ( I am ) .
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at least the LHD market get a foot rest, the RHD ones have NO space to rest your foot.
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I didn't notice.... but then the Fiat 500 is the same!
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noticed it straight away. my mum civic has a nice metal foot rest and on the gen 1 forfour there is plenty of space to rest your left foot
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Saw one on the road yesterday... Somebody actually bought one here or just some magazine driving around???
Pity the fool.
Edit: The car might be ideal for Hammond? 8) Maybe we will get 24 hours in ForFour again? :)
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Maybe. And no doubt they would come to exactly the same conclusion... too expensive for what it is and too much competition. In that first 24hrs test in my opinion they missed the point. Yes, the forfour was quite expensive compared to some of the 'opposition' but it was/is a premium product with a quality about it. No hard, scratchy interior, solid switchgear etc. Ho hum eh?
:)
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But people buy what they can afford and most often buy on HP
The forfour was a big commitment and in 2004 a quirky choice, an unknown entity and not on many people's shopping list.
But it's benefitted us now as we have a great looking, quality, affordable and rare car that is so much more reliable than anything else out there :)
Can someone post a twingo vs forfour set of pics too :)
JJ
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Why not just use Google and see loads of images of both for yourself ?
It save's having to host and post them up.
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I've had a look and to be honest, there's dam all difference in the interiors.
Colours etc are similar, though to me it appears the majority of Renault's
are more colourful and more funky than most of the 'reserved' Smart ones.
It's the exterior that most will see, and Renault has the advantage over Smart
in that they offer a model that Smart do not ! :o (as far as I can ascertain)
A 3 door ! :)
Smart ForFour Gen.2 external images
(interspiced with ForTwo pictures ! Obviously the poeple who posted those
images can't tell the difference for some godforsaken unknown reason !)
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1152&bih=598&q=smart+forfour+2015+interior&oq=Smart+ForFour&gs_l=img.3.5.0l10.3376.6081.0.11974.13.10.0.3.3.0.118.686.8j1.9.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.62.img..1.12.707.-N5CI0iwCpw#hl=en&tbm=isch&q=smart+forfour+2015+exterior&imgdii=_
Renault Twingo external images.
(also interspiced with images of Clio's and Megane's !)
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1152&bih=598&q=smart+forfour+2015+interior&oq=Smart+ForFour&gs_l=img.3.5.0l10.3376.6081.0.11974.13.10.0.3.3.0.118.686.8j1.9.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.62.img..1.12.707.-N5CI0iwCpw#hl=en&tbm=isch&q=Renault+Twingo+2015+exterior&imgdii=_
Forgetting which one is made by whoever, as far as I am concerned
there is only one of them that to my mind is the 'prettiest' and most
pleasing to the eye....but you make your own mind up.
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They both look good (ok maybe the french one is a tad easier on the eye but the smart looks more 'upmarket')
And why would anyone buy a 3 door if a 5 door is available? ( and at same price) The clio's are all 5 door now including the RS hot hatch where it makes least sense
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"....the smart looks more upmarket..." ???
I was going to ask how you came to that conclusion, but we all
each have our own way of looking at/seeing things, so ok, that's
how you see it. :(
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I took the 71hp Fortwo for a testdrive today, and I must say that in normal city driving it is very pleasant. However, putting your foot down at any revs does mostly nothing, so filling in a gap in fast paced traffic is a bit more involving than with my forfour, having to downshift and get on the gas in anticipation. Maybe the turbocharged one will be more responsive, this feels very very flat, like it doesn't accelerate, it just goes progressively faster...
I think it would make a good car for somebody like my girlfriend, or for somebody after a nice A to B car, who doesn't care what engine it is, or where it's placed.
The turning circle is genius, turned it around in the petrol station after filling up, then turned it 360 a couple of times to really see how tight it turns...it had me laughing. Very nice, it will make parking and getting out of little streets packed with cars on both sides a lot easier...
I will be fiddling with the controls and try to find out more about it's features in the following days, and also try to get a real feel for the fuel economy, although on the return trip from Mercedes it averaged a worse consumption than i got going there in my forfour 1.3 BUT it's still a new car, economy will get better, and as i drive it more and get a sense of where it likes to sit at rev wise, i'm sure I'll better my fuel consumption.
The gear ratios are ok, I didn't rev past 3000 except in second because of traffic, but normally i drive in 5th gear and it stays there quite happily between 1500-1800 revs, at around 50-60kph...accelerating is another matter, it reveals it's unwillingness to rev, but even in my 1.3 I'd downshift in this instance so it's not a big issue, but does speak a lot about the dynamics of the car..the engine shudders a bit, or maybe it's the 3-cyl balance combined with low revs...but the 1.3 doesn't do this, and although it's not sprinting from 1500 revs in 5th it doesn't shudder, it goes along picking up speed.
Next to this new fortwo, the new forfour looks a lot better, it has a nicer stance thanks to the way the tridion wraps around in the rear. With a more lively engine, it could be a worthy successor to the forfour. The car felt comfortable and it stays on the road...a bit ugly, but people have been telling me that about my forfour for years...so it's down to personal taste...
The wheel is nice and chunky, but too close to the chest if you don't have long legs...set up for town driving i couldn't see the top of the speedo, so town speeds 40-70 were obscured, luckily there's also a digital speed readout on the in instrument panel cluster. The renault sourced switches and levers had a less negative impact in person...but i'm still not pleased with them...
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http://www.carscoops.com/2014/07/2015-smart-forfour-gets-virtual.html
This one looked good.. .then i realised its been photoshopped !
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Looks okay (sort of), but as you said, its photshopped and not gonna happen.
1/ 5 stud fitting.....whereas its a 4 stud.
2/ that low there's no clearance between the arches and the tyres
3/ it'll be 'all show n no go'.
Pathetic to be honest.
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Not gonna happen.... erm Mr W has claimed the W453 so lowering springs, induction kit & spacers already waiting for the car, front grill at the paint shop too!
I am now getting a C453 as compensation for losing it's big brother!
Kate
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It's not hosting - just meant to put [img] around the google links - it's much easier doing a side by side compare on 1 page rather than link and I was at work so couldn't do it :)
JJ
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I Read Tekniikan Maailma's test drive article (4th issue 2015), pointed almost same things as myself except clutch (I cannot be only one?)
Anyway no luck with head lights either, they are "acceptable" manufactured by Valeo (Twingo has Hella), changing bulbs should be easy.
Quick summary of TM test drive:
- Price difference between Passion (worst) and Prime (best) models is 1000€, ForTwo model costs 600€ less
- Don't hold fantasies for cabin volume, especially leg and head room at rear seats has decreased dramatically
- Boot space volume has changed from 270l to 160l (seats up)
- Twingo has 5 cm more head and leg room at front and back seats, which is weird
- Assistant driver seat folds in two
- There is option for multi function back seat, which gives more headroom (A MUST OPTION!!!) <----HOPE HOPE HOPE
- Passion model defaults: automatic climate control, cruise control, speed limiter and hill start assistant
- Prime gives leather interior finish and active lane watcher
- Proxy gives 10 millimeters lower sport option (and Prime options also)
- Factory options list is similar to exclusive car option list (loooooonnngggg)
- Euro 6 motor, still Twingo gets better fuel economy (more aerodynamic)
- Tough suspension, lots of grip, ESP handles well in all situations even with intentional slide
- Not shaky with emergency braking
- Thinner tires are a design feature where it doesn't over- or understeer, it is balanced perfectly
- Brakes are inaccurate with slow speeds (On-Off)
- In city ForFour is silent, probably thanks to thin tires and lots of fabric in interior design (quality)
- On high way engine can be heard over tires but it doesn't sound annoying
- Every detail is different from Twingo
- Headlights are not very good, only acceptable, twingo has slightly better according to our test instruments
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This weeks Auto Express compares smart forfour/Renault Twingo/Skoda Citigo. Their conclusion... 1st Skoda, 2nd forfour, 3rd Twingo. Makes quite a good read. I realise that looks are a very emotive thing but to me the VW trio of up!/Mii/Citigo have no styling AT ALL. I think that their styling department must have had the day off! Totally boring. Whereas the new C1 I think is great!
:~)
:)
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Looks like that review was a bit skewed Fireflower...
Rear leg room is less than with the seats pushed back but in that case boot space is increased not decreased! and with seats forward in 454 there is much more space in W453!
Multispace seats std in UK
Headlights - LED a pack option obv not on test car though
Kate
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Why on earth didn't they designate the 'new' ForFour as the 455 !
Ok, so it shares a 'similar' floorpan and the same basic mechanicals
as the ForTwo, but talk about confusing things....scheesh !
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Fortwo - 450, 451, (452 taken by roadie), 453
Forfour - 454, 455
All makes sense to me - haha!!
JJ
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W453 wagon & C453 compact!
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I know - was being facetious :P haha
JJ
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W453 wagon & C453 compact!
I understand that.....but in most cases you'll be asked
when it goes for a service or for parts etc etc.....
"Is it a ForTwo or a ForFour ?" And as soon as you say it's a
ForTwo (as most people do) they'll either ask if it's a 450 or a 451,
or what year. If you say it's a W453 or a C453 anywhere but at
MB/Smart then you'll be met with a blank look and/or..
"What's one of them ?"
Ha...why not complicate it even more..... :-\
a C453B or a W453B (B=Brabus), or perhaps C453A or W453A (A=Allroad),
even a W453E (E=Estate), and C453C & W453C (Crossblade or Convertible),
and finally....a W453LWB taxi.
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W453 wagon & C453 compact!
I understand that.....but in most cases you'll be asked
when it goes for a service or for parts etc etc.....
"Is it a ForTwo or a ForFour ?" And as soon as you say it's a
ForTwo (as most people do) they'll either ask if it's a 450 or a 451,
or what year. If you say it's a W453 or a C453 anywhere but at
MB/Smart then you'll be met with a blank look and/or..
"What's one of them ?"
Ha...why not complicate it even more..... :-\
a C453B or a W453B (B=Brabus), or perhaps C453A or W453A (A=Allroad),
even a W453E (E=Estate), and C453C & W453C (Crossblade or Convertible),
and finally....a W453LWB taxi.
go to mercedes parts and tell them you want parts for a forfour and they will then ask for the reg number... you over thinking things, me thinks 'G'
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Yeah... all done on vin number! But no different to a merc owner owning a 211 as opposed to a E350...
Kate
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ok...point taken..nuff said. I'll keep it zipped..... :'(