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Author Topic: Petrol or Diesel?  (Read 8302 times)

9582djk

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Petrol or Diesel?
« on: March 02, 2013, 04:48:35 PM »

While I have been looking around for a Brabus I was wondering what the petrol and diesel variants were like. Ive seen advertised a diesel 95 bhp version and was wondering if a map could be put on it and if so how much bhp? Is the 1.5 standard petrol the same as the Brabus just not tuned? I have driven a 1.1 Black Edition and I thought it was pretty nippy to be honest, only concern was a little under spec. As I'm use to the Roadster having pods I found then useful and noticed not all Forfours have them. Is the semi-auto worth a punt?
Sorry for all the questions just trying to get weigh up some options lol :)
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lil.smartie

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 05:02:37 PM »

I loved my CDi semi-auto. Mapped to around 135bhp and still good fuel economy! The CZC I have now is the Brabus engine and is great fun but can drink fuel if it's pushed too much :)

Kate
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mr singh

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2013, 05:45:13 PM »

it depends on the annual mileage you do... if it less than 12,000 mile then go petrol, if more than 12,000 miles then diesel.
the brabus has a 1.5 TURBO engine, the 'normal' 1.5 has a tuning kit available, albeit it an expensive kit to take it from standard to 119 bhp.
you can retro fit the pods on any model forfour to my knowledge. there were several 'special editions' but they were in essence spec'ed up pure's.
i have a 1.1 passion, but looking at what i can see, it looks a bit basic
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airSnake

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 06:09:39 PM »

I Have a 68bhp auto Diesel and it's quick. I haven't driven or even been in a Brabus but I just forget mine is only running 68 so who knows what the 95 is like let alone 135bhp; G would be the best to ask as I think he has a remapped from 95bhp diesel AMT and a Brabus. I believe the standard petrol 1.5 was without a turbo, unlike the Brabus.
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06 Forfour 1.5 CDi AMT - Black and Silver

Problemchild

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2013, 06:28:54 PM »

imagine the same car with 180bhp then...... 3 x your current power ;)

JJ

lil.smartie

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2013, 06:47:34 PM »

Less torque on the Brabus though JJ so very different to drive although Paul did upset a TT driver earlier and I don't think the Jag XJR driver this morning expected the 'hairdressers car' to stick to his bumper when he planted his right foot either..

Kate
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Problemchild

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2013, 07:44:32 PM »

Marginally less - standard still has 230Nm vs 270Nm for remapped? But then 50bhp down.

Remap on brab over 200bhp and over 310Nm (70bhp and 40Nm up?)

If you are gonna spend £200 mapping the cdi, just spend £350 mapping the brab to way beyond.

Personally, I'm not a fan on the noise of a 3-cylinder engine.

Kate - is the CZt mapped yet?

JJ

 
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 07:46:43 PM by Problemchild »
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Brabs

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2013, 07:59:31 PM »

The engines of the 1.5 and Brabus forfours have the same capacity but are not the same engine. The Brabus has a Mitsubishi G5 engine which has been exclusively mapped by Brabus who have also turbocharged it. It has wonderfully wide power and torque bands... IMO.
Having said that I do like the plucky character of my 1.1's little 3 cylinder engine. I also love the noise especially as it spins up the rev band. Magic!  ;)
 :)
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funkydoodycool

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2013, 08:47:43 PM »

I've driven all variants of the forfour, and to be fair there's not a lot in it... except the Brabus of course which is considerably more car against the others at stock maps.

CrazyG has a CDi mapped to about 120bhp, loadsa torque, and he'll tell you it's not much off the stock Brabus in mid-range (i.e. planting your foot on the motorway to annoy the BMW that's on your tail).  You will also get 60mpg out of a CDi, mapped or otherwise... whereas on the Brab you can halve that figure.

What you do get in the Brab though is the highest spec as standard, although the ride is very harsh.

A Brab also gives you extreme exclusivity - 274 left in the UK, and dropping every year.
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lil.smartie

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2013, 08:55:17 PM »

Not mapped yet, going to get a good dyno run 1st as is (just the itg filter) then map and what ever else Paul has planned that he hasn't told me yet..

I do like the 3 cyl noise though from the 1.1 or the CDi :)

Kate
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airSnake

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2013, 10:34:40 PM »

I love the 3 cyl sound. Wait, It's only £200 for a remap? what about remap supporting mods (as the EGR is a no no)?

If you want exclusive counts http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=forfour
I think any forfour is considered rare compared to say 72,000 Fiat Puntos

I'd say It's better to have a nice engine than spec as you can always retrofit certain bits (like upgraded sound); Don't believe MCM when they say painting your brake calipers red will give you an extra 5bhp and that flip up screen won't change your tyre  :P




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06 Forfour 1.5 CDi AMT - Black and Silver

CrazyG

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2013, 11:39:00 PM »

9582djk....
you have to carefully consider what you want out of the car or what you want it for/to do.
I have a highly modified CDI, and I did own a Brabus, so I think I can comment on both.
The Brabus is a turbo and different engine to the 1.5 petrol. The 1.3 petrol is as near as makes
no real difference as powerful as the 1.5 petrol.  Torque will be a bit better on the 1.5 though.
1.3 better on fuel...marginally, and a wee bit cheaper on insurance..just.
 
The Brabus....
As stated, is a really wonderful car. Exclusivity is undeniable, and so few know what it is
truly capable of.  JJ (Problemchild) and Musmart both have remapped Brabs', both
have over 200bhp to play with ! And they love them. But even standard at 177bhp they are
'pocket rockets' and a 'wolf in sheeps clothing'.
The downside is; as already mentioned; fuel consumption (can get as low as 22mpg !)...that
and the insurance are the 'killers' so to speak. (If only it had had a 6 speed gearbox ).
Oh, and of course one mustn't forget the soft expensive andeasily damaged wheels + rear
shocks that leak even after only 20k miles in some cases !

The CDI...
Came as 68 or 95hp.....the only difference is the mapping.
The 68 is a good 'plodder' though a little gutless. The 95 is better with more oomph.
The 68 can be mapped to 95 simply, without the need for a custom map, but ensure the
EGR is 'mapped out' if you do have it done.  Both the 68 and 95 can be mapped to over 120.
For reliability 115 is perfect, but mileage and previous service history and how it now runs
or performs needs to be taken into consideration when having it remapped.
I would always recommend a custom map (if going over 95) not an off the shelf 'clone'
or copied map as many inaptly named 'tuners' will offer you.
(Tony of Tune4performance is the master of custom remaps, properly set up on a dyno).
Cons...not as fast as and doesn't handle like the Brab.
Pro's...Cheap Insurance, even when re-mapped (MSM Insurance). Great fuel consumption,
           easily remapped to suit, can fit Bilstein suspension to transform the handling, can
           fit stronger aftermarket 16" or 17" wheels and tyres to add to the handling,can be
           further modifed to bring it up to Brab level with s/hand parts etc. Once remapped it
           is a good match for the Brab in the mid range. Torque gives a wonderful powerband.
           Fuel consumption after remap unaffected and often improved if driven in the same
           manner as before the remap as the torque is stronger so less gearchanges.

And finally, gearboxes....manual or AMT....
Manual is the only choice on the Brab.
Manual 5 speed in all cases, AMT is 6 speed.   AMT gives better fuel consumption.
There are some issues with the AMT which have never been resolved, so I would
advise choose a manual, though having said all that I have not had any real issues
with my AMT....apart from when I took it on a race track.  the problem there was
that I wanted to downshift a gear after a bit of acceleration, but the 'electronic brains'
thought I should be shifting up (even though I was driving it as a manual) and it duelly
shifted up ! !  So it didn't help at all with the tight corner I was just entering into....
It was scarry to say the least...and if I hadn't KW coilover suspension on the car that I
had, then the car would have ended up going straight ahead into the rough or a barrier.
But that was extreme...and on a race track.

So...make your choice.....
 
   
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 11:49:31 PM by CrazyG »
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454 - Brabus (mapped, Willwood brakes, coilovers etc etc)
454 - Passion CDi 95hp (manual, full Brab body kit, coilovers etc)
454 - Passion 1.3 (manual, Brab body kit, lowered etc) [SORN'd]
451 - Pulse Turbo [my daily drive] (mapped, coilovers etc)
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Problemchild

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2013, 12:03:14 AM »

Tune4performance map is £150 for off the shelf or £200 for a rolling road set up one.

JJ

aza

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Re: Petrol or Diesel?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2013, 08:01:04 PM »

I looked at getting the Brabus but due to amount of miles I cover per year the Cdi was a more sensible option plus the Brabus has leather seats, which I'm not keen on, nor was I keen on having to fork out a substantial amount to have the Cambelt changed (most people seem to sell their around the 50k mark).   

I have a good spec' Passion 95 with the AMT 'box that's been remapped by Tony to 124bhp.  She is very torquey and embarrasses much more expensive motors off the line and during acceleration. I still average 60ish mpg, less wintertime but summertime I've had around 70 mpg.

I would have another forfour without a doubt but would probably opt for the 5 speed manual as the AMT is a bit frustrating at times.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 08:48:22 PM by CrazyG »
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