forfour.co.uk
Forum => General Smart Chat => Topic started by: Ocracoke on July 27, 2015, 01:26:47 PM
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Heya Everyone,
So I am still looking for a 454 to restart my ForFour ownership with and have settled on whatever car I get to be a quiet, stressfree* long distance cruiser. Sounds boring compared to all the performance modified 454s I've seen on here but it is a new angle to take it.
To make it a little harder, the 454 will need to be my commuting car, doing ~500 miles a week but I will consider either a petrol or diesel AMT 454 (so no Brabus for me here). To that end, how "clattery" is the diesel compared to the 1.1 petrol and more generally, how loud is the 454 in general? My last ownership experience with a 454 was a 1.5 NA and I recall that being reasonably quiet (certainly quieter than my 450 at present).
I would appreciate any thoughts anyone had on this.
* Of course, no guarantee of this.
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Tire noise is the biggest issue, so selecting the most silent tires is crucial for F4.
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Hi!
I have driven both, the diesel is clearly much quieter at 60-75 mph on the highway, whilst the petrol 1.1 is almost silent when idle (when the engine is warm ofc) and more silent when driving through the city. Not sure if you are looking for a different brand, but the Ford focus MK2 from that era is more silent then both. Nevertheless go take a test drive with both the diesel and petrol and judge for yourself:)
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having used my 1.1 to commute to and from York for 2 years i have to say its bearable, but it does get annoying being sat at 3500 rpm on the A64.
BUT having driven from Leeds to Dillingen an der Donau (south Germany) i found that i got used to the road noise and the engine.
but i have to say my 1.1 forfour is better than the 1.2 8v grande punto i had when i was on Greece. that punto was sat at 4000 rpm at 120 KPH and it did get very tiring racing down the highway rather than cruising.
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Tire noise is the biggest issue, so selecting the most silent tires is crucial for F4.
Skinny tyres I would help I imagine. Sounds a crime but Steels may be the way to go on that one.
having used my 1.1 to commute to and from York for 2 years i have to say its bearable, but it does get annoying being sat at 3500 rpm on the A64.
This is a manual 1.1 I guess? That is quite a low gear ratio for 5th gear (I presume).
the diesel is clearly much quieter at 60-75 mph on the highway, whilst the petrol 1.1 is almost silent when idle (when the engine is warm ofc) and more silent when driving through the city
Yeah, this was the sort of experience I had when I had a petrol and diesel 450 of roughly the same year. The diesel was the far more laid back affair on the A55 whereas the petrol is more sprightly in town. ~500 miles a week, mostly motorway driving would seem to settle that argument.
Not sure if you are looking for a different brand, but the Ford focus MK2 from that era is more silent then both.
I am sure the Ford is technically superior but that isn't the point. There are too many Fords round where I live and the last Ford I had (a mk4 Fiesta) blew all the brakes at MOT time. No, a ForFour for me thanks.
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If I may venture my opinion....
All models do have/suffer considerable wind noise
(by todays standards) at motorway speeds, but
if it were that bad then none of us would still have
our ForFour's, so we'll 'ignore' that small issue, ok.
If the majority of your driving will be on motorways
then I'd not hesitate to recommend the CDi.
The 95 has more 'oomph' than the 68, but if you find
a 68 for less than a 95, then it can be remapped to
95 or higher !
And as for transmission....yes the AMT with the taller
6th gear than the manual's 5th will give more mpg, but
if TBH, there's not much to choose otherwise. The AMT
can give some owners issues as it's unlike a 'slushbox'
auto, and you have to adapt to it, not it to you, so for
simplicity and perhaps to lessen the chance of any
of the AMT over critically publicised woe's I would suggest
the possibility of a manual.
That's not to say the AMT is not worth having.....
I've had mine for over 7 years and not had a single
problem worth writing about, and my daughter has
a 1.3 AMT which she has owned for over 4 years...
again without any issues. and there are many more
owners that would stand by their AMT's.
You never hear anyone 'praise' them...but why should
they have to ?
Why not even consider the 1.3 AMT ?
(40.7 mpg urban, 65.9 mpg extra urban/motorway, 53.5 mpg combined)
Figures from Autotrader
Whichever you decide, I'm sure you'll enjoy ownership of the ForFour.
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All models do have/suffer considerable wind noise (by todays standards) at motorway speeds
I am going to venture that they do not suffer as badly as the 450.
The 95 has more 'oomph' than the 68, but if you find a 68 for less than a 95, then it can be remapped to
95 or higher !
This is one factor. I was looking at B.I.G Performance's maps and seems a 95 could go higher than a 68 (why I am not sure - might just be me worth asking about). Unlike the 450, I don't think I want to modify the engine much this time around until the other stuff is done, by which time it may not matter.
...so for simplicity and perhaps to lessen the chance of any of the AMT over critically publicised woe's I would suggest the possibility of a manual.
Actually, the gearbox in the 1.5 AMT I had briefly is one of my fondest memories of it. Compared to a 450 gearbox, it is a hell of a lot smoother. I loved the fact it would sit in 6th at 30mph as well. It was the engine I struggled with. Going from a 54bhp 450 to a 109bhp (with similar torque gains no doubt) meant I was unintentionally spinning the wheels a fair bit. This may not have happened in a manual but for me, it isn't a Smart unless it has a semi-auto. Learn to enjoy the quirkiness - it's where character comes from.
Why not even consider the 1.3 AMT ?
I am of the opinion that the engine isn't as modifiable as a 1.5 petrol or diesel (http://www.forfour.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3336.0 (http://www.forfour.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3336.0)) but perhaps this might not matter in what I am going for. Hell, I'll even consider a 1.1 AMT if it came to it.
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Captain obvious here; but do ensure a well maintained car. There is variance of mpg, that can depend on the history, not just the model itself - how the car itself runs. It's been well spoken of that a multitude of factors can affect mpg though.
Commonly people are reported an average of 350 miles on a tank. Personally I found motorway miles will return you 400-420 miles on a tank; or returned from about 40 litres (which is going into flashing fuel sign). This is from my cdi. But there is alot to be said for the 1.3 and its mpg return.
There are also guides on here to sound proofing. Have you considered a sound system that could turn harae krishna into a badboy? ;D ;D ;D 'Noise' issues over. The spare tyre well can home powered amp.
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My brab is v noisy ;)
Brrrum brrrum!!
JJ
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Captain obvious here; but do ensure a well maintained car
Quite. Learned that the hard way on the 450... even if it isn't a particularly well maintained car, it will be in my hands.
Personally I found motorway miles will return you 400-420 miles on a tank; or returned from about 40 litres (which is going into flashing fuel sign)
I thought the fuel tank was 50 litres, not 45 as you imply? I reckon I'd be lucky to see that kind of mileage on my morning commute. The M53 is quite flat, the A494 and A55 to Abergele isn't, not by a long shot. Wonder if the extra torque offered by the CDI would help even that out.
There are also guides on here to sound proofing. Have you considered a sound system that could turn harae krishna into a badboy?
I was thinking of that this morning on the way to work. I am no audiophile but I might look into installing a small amp and some extra tweeters around the back of the car. Sound proofing looks reasonably straight forwards.
My brab is v noisy
Damn right it is. ;)
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If you do go for a CDi, then I will dispel one myth for you.
The 68 and the 95 differ by only the maps that they have.
Both engines/ECU's etc are exactly the same.
In other words, the same maps can be used on both.
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The tank is 50 litres. I got 47 into mine last week. The fuel light comes on and is difficult to ignore above 40 litres and so that is the usual dictator for the range. Tyres can make a huge difference to cabin noise. When you choose your tyres remember 3db is a 50% reduction in perceived noise level. The data should be available when you buy and choose them.
People are affected by different types of noise and levels hence it is best to try it and see. Personally my car makes an awful noise with the radio tuned to 95.8 :)
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Tyre choice should not be governed by noise generation, but by wet braking performance.
Getting wheelspin frequently from a car with only 109BHP smacks of poor car control, or driving on worn out or very budget tyres.
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The 68 and the 95 differ by only the maps that they have.
Ah, that clears it. I am sure I had read somewhere that this was the case but it was a long time ago and had since read/heard contradicting information.
The tank is 50 litres. I got 47 into mine last week. The fuel light comes on and is difficult to ignore above 40 litres and so that is the usual dictator for the range.
I've got the 450 in my head, which flashes at 5 litres till empty. As an aside, does the 454 show a similar countdown?
And now getting back to the topic... :P
People are affected by different types of noise and levels hence it is best to try it and see.
Tyre choice should not be governed by noise generation, but by wet braking performance.
I do understand the point about braking performance. Of course noise shouldn't be the only factor in buying a set of tyres. I'd rather not kill myself or anyone on the road for acoustic preferences.
Getting wheelspin frequently from a car with only 109BHP smacks of poor car control, or driving on worn out or very budget tyres.
I hadn't had the last ForFour I owned for very long (nor did it last particularly long either) and I still had the City-Coupe in my head, which needed a fair bit of throttle movement to get it going. Clearly, the 454 doesn't.
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I regularly drive from Devon to Northampton to visit my brother and I alternate between using my Brab and 1.1 Passion. TBH I really enjoy driving either of them. Today it was the turn of the 1.1. It cruised beautifully at the legal limit, just humming along. That little 3 cylinder engine is a gem. As for the noise level... it didn't upset me at all. Neither does it in the Brab. 240 miles and I loved every one of them! ;)
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My amt feels like a posh little go kart :P
You will be surprised. On long journeys with an auto, it's easy to go over limit as the car remains smooth at even 100mph. Erm, apparently. If I'm correct in what you're thinking, older small cars would rattle and shake and make a racket. my cdi auto holds it's own at high speeds. Flat out, it's a little hairy but still fairly solid.
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it's easy to go over limit as the car remains smooth at even 100mph....
i take it you mean 71 MPH ;) ;D
and yes i did forget to mention that mine is a manual
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If I'm correct in what you're thinking, older small cars would rattle and shake and make a racket.
I wouldn't exactly call my 13 year old 450 "old" but it is getting on a bit. That shakes like a pro - probably down to a imbalanced wheel somewhere.
The CDI has swayed me. The lower revs should mean at least 80% of my commute is less noisy than present.
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Solid choice. You won't regret it. Wait for a passion spec model.