forfour.co.uk
Forum => General Smart Chat => Topic started by: gimba on March 11, 2018, 08:07:11 PM
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Just trying my luck
Looking to swap my 1.3 petrol for diesel
Bluntly, got to travel 100miles/day
No advisories
98k
2004
More info and proper chat if someone is interested
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Are you sure that you want swap 4 cyl. engine to 3 cyl.? :-*
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Yep, I want better mpg
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Diesel is more expensive to maintain. I have that small Merc diesel called 1.5 CDI and love it but without premium fuel, oil at least ACEA C3 (EGR/CAT very friendly), without adding 2S to fuel, water cleaning top of engine from time to time and using mainly on motorway you can forget about good MPG.
In city 1.5 CDI eats full tank in about 300 miles. Not really fuel friendly.
On other hand... with 5W-30 oil and standard diesel fuel you can easily reach MPG 70 when cruising on highway. 40 viscoity oil, will lower MPG.
Just saying ;)
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I love my 3-cylinder petrol engine. I wouldn't swap (LHD anyway) but I get why you're looking to economise.
I will say that the 3-cyl ForFour engines are (almost) bulletproof: I've had lots of gremlins with my electrical bits and sensors, but the engine has always been rock solid. Starts first time, every time and never stalls, even when I give it every reason to do so.
edit: it also pulls like a champ - for a 1.1l. Must be the high compression!
(http://fastdecals.com/shop/images/detailed/8/justgotpassed01_misc.jpg?t=1434622819)
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That fortwo image above isn't right for this (ahem) ForFour forum, so here's my contribution to ForFour sticker art:
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What’s motorway mpg on both?
Then do petrol Vs cost of diesel
This has spreadsheet written all over it haha
JJ
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Diesel is more expensive to maintain. I have that small Merc diesel called 1.5 CDI and love it but without premium fuel, oil at least ACEA C3 (EGR/CAT very friendly), without adding 2S to fuel, water cleaning top of engine from time to time and using mainly on motorway you can forget about good MPG.
In city 1.5 CDI eats full tank in about 300 miles. Not really fuel friendly.
On other hand... with 5W-30 oil and standard diesel fuel you can easily reach MPG 70 when cruising on highway. 40 viscoity oil, will lower MPG.
Just saying ;)
Those are only YOUR conclusions....
Maintaining the 1.5 cdi is not expensive....for a start, you don't have to
change 4 spark plugs at regular mileage intervals (B service) as you do
for a petrol..so there's a fair cost saving to start with.
Oil, oil filter, and air filter are the same cost for CDI or petrol.
Ok, so the diesel filter does require changing...but not that frequently
and it doesn't cost much.
And the CDI...if it is used where it really is at it's best, on motorways
or long/prolonged journeys, then you do not need to use top end fuel
etc or any additives as it will be running at optimum temperature, plus
the EGR will do the job it's supposed to do without any problems.
It's short journeys that are 'The Enemy' of any diesel.
And as for fuel mpg...(Autotrader figures for manual 454)
Engine 1.1 1.3 1.5 CDI 95
Urban 38.7mpg 36.7mpg 36.2mpg 47.9mpg
Extra urban 58.9mpg 56.5mpg 55.4mpg 72.4mpg
Average 49.6mpg 47.1mpg 46.3mpg 61.4mpg
So no matter which way you look at it Deszus, your 300 mpg per tank
around town (urban) is better than you'll get from a 1.5 petrol. If you want
even more miles per tank, why not drive a bit more gently or dare I say
stick strictly to the legal speed limit on each road ? (Boring eh, I bet)
But whichever way you look at it, mpg is related not only to how
one drives, but also to road and trafiic conditions, plus weather etc etc.
Drive like an F1 driver around town and you'll get crap mpg....
drive like a rich man's chauffeur and you'll get a lot better mpg.
It is all relative.
And no car; petrol or diesel; will ever give good mpg if it is only
driven short distances when it never get's up to the proper working
temperature.....fact.
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What really destroys diesels? Yes, short journeys, you're right crazy G.
Question is why. Answer is carbon. Soot in oil, destroy bearings in engine block. Soft, black killer. It always build up quickest and hardest when diesel wasn't bringed to proper working temperature. So means, replacing oil filters more often than on petrol engines and oil, even best possible synt oil, as often as it is possible. I would say 3000 miles in city, and filter in between.
Oil + filter - > Start point miles
Filter -> 1500 miles
Oil + filter -> 3000 miles
Best cheap oil for 1.5 CDI engine and filters aren't expensive. Mann filter 14 quid and low saps 5W30 ACEA C3 maybe 40 quid for 6 liters.
But this is real maintaining diesel in city. If driven on motorways often, soot buildup should be much lower and that often oil and filter changing, not really necessary.
More from my experience what works and is really valuable when driving 1.5 CDI in city. Good size neodymium magnets on oil filter. I have compared insides of my oil filter after 5000 miles without magnets and other one with magnets (same mileage). Hard to believe how much of steel those magnets collect. Even best oil filter has bypass valve which will send current oil in filter back to engine, so those magnets are really essential if you take care about engine on short trips around city. Won't really hurt on motorway.
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If you are using a diesel where the majority of the time it is in the city, you really have to ask why you have one in the first place. Short journeys, to be frank, are the enemy of any IC engine.
However, getting back to the original point of this topic, city driving doesn't sound like the sort of driving that the OP will be doing. 500 miles a week sounds more closely aligned with the sort of driving I was doing when I commuted to work, which equated to about 450 miles a week in my 600cc City-Coupe.
If you run the numbers (G, are the numbers here for the manual? The S-As are a little different)...
1.1 - 500 / 49.6 = 10.08 gallons (45.76 litres)
1.3 - 500 / 47.1 = 10.62 gallons (48.21 litres)
1.5 - 500 / 46.3 = 10.80 gallons (49.03 litres)
1.5 cdi - 500 / 61.4 = 8.14 gallons (36.96 litres)
...the diesel, in ideal situations, does make more sense but I'd be more inclined to keep the 1.3 purely on the grounds of the work done to it and it can technically complete a week on one tank of fuel.
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Sleepy eyes Ocracoke ?
The mpg figures I stated were for manual 454's... (as stated above them) ;)
And yes...the AMT (or S-A as some tend to call them) are a tad better.
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Diesels are more efficient than petrol at idle. Diesel is a CI engine, it is petrol that is IC just to be pedantic.
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Sleepy eyes Ocracoke ?
A touch. :P I see it now.
Diesel is a CI engine, it is petrol that is IC just to be pedantic.
I'll rephrase to account for that - Short journeys, to be frank, are the enemy of any liquefied fossil consuming engine. ;)
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Yup - roll in EV arrival haha
JJ
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So means, replacing oil filters more often than on petrol engines and oil, even best possible synt oil, as often as it is possible. I would say 3000 miles in city, and filter in between.
Oil + filter - > Start point miles
Filter -> 1500 miles
Oil + filter -> 3000 miles
this may be the reason as to why you think owning a diesel is expensive...
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G'day all,
I dont drive like a racing driver and get an average of over 54.1MPG or in metric 19.15KML in my 1.5 liter petrol forfour, so its possible to have good milage in a Smart petrol.
Greetings,
Eddie.
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So means, replacing oil filters more often than on petrol engines and oil, even best possible synt oil, as often as it is possible. I would say 3000 miles in city, and filter in between.
Oil + filter - > Start point miles
Filter -> 1500 miles
Oil + filter -> 3000 miles
this may be the reason as to why you think owning a diesel is expensive...
That's ideal for people who take care after theirs cars engines as best as possible. I do the same but:
0 miles Start point,
2500 miles, new MANN filter, fill up filter with same oil,
5000 miles, water cleaning, drain old oil, new MANN filter, 5,5L oil into pan, start another zero point.
That's city driving, any oil will get dirty through 5000 miles in the city. It's all because diesel. Can't help that.
Expensive? I buy oil in 20L canisters and filters in bulk. One oil change for me is less than 25 quid for best filter and best oil. Oh, and 30 minutes of my time every 5000 miles or about 120-130 hours of time when engine was working.
Sometimes I wonder how necessary it is for 3 cylinder, diesel supermarket trolley. But that's just me. I take care for all machinery that is around me. Can't help myself. Love them all.
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That's ideal for people who take care after theirs cars engines as best as possible.
not this statement again... the way i understand it is if you dont change your oil the way you do we are not looking after our engines.
and also you get your oil in bulk, but over all you WILL spend more in oil changes than i will changing my oil 1 a year (or by mileage).
bulk oil will cost anything from £70+ for 20 litters which sounds cheap BUT the filters you are buying at £14 each and changing them 4 times a year (assuming you do 10,000 miles a year) which comes to £56 just in filters, couple that up with your bulk oil and it comes to £126 PER YEAR in oil changes (£17.50 per oil change + £14 per filter = £31.50 per oil change x 4 oil changes per year = £126). where as if you did it once a year it comes to £64 (approx £50 for oil and £14 for a filter) and the engine will run just as well. the minuet you turn the key with fresh oil in a diesel and dip it the oil WILL be black, i have done countless services on low mileage diesels to know.
2 oil changes on vehicles with DPF's is understandable but vehicles with out DPF's, once a year is enough.
in reply to gimba, keep your 1.3 and adjust your driving style. i was in the same position when i started working in York and had my 1.1 and was doing 50-60 miles a day, but advice from here was you know how your car runs and its quirks, a new car may not be as good to you.
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G'day all, I think Deszus is overdoing it a fair bit with his oil changes, I've had 5 diesel cars and changed the oil between about 15.000km to 20.000km, and they all did just fine, and when it came to trade inn, when they had done about 250.000km i only got between 1000 dollar and 1500 dollar for each, so i think i saved myselve a lot of money by just keeping it simple.
I do the same with my forfour, and i am sure its ok.
Greetings,
Eddie.
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At the end of day, changing oil often hurts less, than changing it less frequently. And yeah, we're talking here about using diesel in city.
Cold running cause not fully combustion in cylinders and soot is being created in volume much higher than when diesel motor works on proper temperature. Quick turning off diesels, cause oil oxidation (turbo), which when done, destroys viscosity and cleaning properties of oil.
Diesel trucks are using mineral oil with interval as 40kkm. And engines lasts to 1 milion kms. Typical values, funny he?
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but we are not talking about trucks and mineral oil. we are driving CARS which use FULLY SYNTHETIC oil.
why buy a diesel and drive it in the city?
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if someone wants to put their money into the pockets of the oil companies then hey ;)
apart from the waste oil environmental issue - i would always promote condition based rather than schedule based.
JJ
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So you wanna swap or nah
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why buy a diesel and drive it in the city?
Why you asking? Like having double torque compare to power. 100HP and 210Nm. Some of these are long gone because engine age, but still nice little sharp dirty Smart. What not to like, really?
Money into oil companies? What can I do. Wanted to build something to filter synthetic oil off the soot and reuse it back again but compared viscosity of fresh synthetic 5W40 to 5000 miles old, exactly same oil...
Diluted with diesel. This is it. Every diesel engine when cold, pumps some fuel into crankcase. Smart happens. >:(
So you wanna swap or nah
Nah. I stay together will my dirty boy. We love each other like lungs loves cancer. Recently added sticker on the back so other drivers have no doubts about this dirty boy.
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PLEASE.... Can we all stick to the original context of the post..which was
"Anyone want to Swap 1.3 petrol for diesel ?"