forfour.co.uk
Forum => General Smart Chat => Topic started by: Problemchild on March 25, 2010, 04:36:12 PM
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Hope this helps potential buyers...
First and foremost, ensure that the car you buy has 2 keys.
If not deduct £250 from the price. £200 for a new key from MB
and £50 to code it to the car. No one except MB can provide the
keys as they are a specilised item due to the shape and electronics.
REQUIREMENT: Set out what you want from your BRAB....
AGE - production finished with 56 plates (i think) but there are some newer registered ones than that
Colour - Black or Silver
Radio/CD - Radio5(basic 2 speaker set-up, though there are some with 6 speakers but no sub, and some with
6 speakers plus sub).. Radio6(larger screen, telephone controls and 6 speakers plus sub woofer)..
SatNav(built in satnav).
Other options - Large opening Sunroof, panoramic roof, headlamp washers, HID's (with headlamp washers),
auto lights/wipers (think thats about it!!)
SERVICING:
Service history is one of the key things to consider when buying a second hand Brabus ForFour
because of the tuned engine. There are some out there which have not been serviced correctly,
usually missing the 10,000km (6,250mile) Intermediate Oil change.
If the seller cannot prove evidence that it has been done, walk away and find one which has.
http://forfour.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=138.0
(Saying that though, a lot of BRABs have low mileage and this change may not have been
necessarily due to lack of road time)
WARRANTY:
If the car was registered after April 2006, it will have the benefit of 4 years warranty as opposed
to 2years (some Dealers argue this fact, but it's true, so call MBUK if you are unsure).
The extra two years are granted as an extended warranty if the car has been serviced correctly
during the previous 2 years term (not necessary to be with Merc) . Then, the extended two year
warranty is only valid if you continue using Smart Centre's and not Independents.
(but Merc can be good value for money).
COMMON ISSUES:
Leaky shock absorbers (especially rears) are common across the while ForFour range !
Wheel bearings are known to go !
Reverse gear selection can be crunchy !
BRAB MonoBlock VI alloys are soft (they will dent if you hit a pothole too hard) and the lacquer does
corrode (as it also does on expensive Mercs too !)
(The BRAB Monoblock 'A' wheels are a lot harder/better wheel than the Monoblock VI's..easier to clean too !)
The alarm can be very sensitive, and it has no adjustment.
The engine itself is more or less 'bullet proof', as is the manual gearbox (the Mitsubishi influence)
TUNING:
The standard Brabus Map is excellent. Its beyond description and pulls power all the way to the redline,
unlike other cars where power drops off in the last thousand or so rpm.
The best mods on the car can be had very simply, hardware mods.
Upgrade exhaust with sports catalyst, panel air filter replacement (ITG, Pipercross, K&N), or an Induction kit
such as the one made by K&N (The Colt CZT one). Remapping is an option, but not many suppliers around,
and of those, very very very few who can do better than the original map.
NB: Some owners have tried uprated Colt CZT maps, but they have all seen and felt the 'rev-iness' of the
original Brabus map disappear, and overall the car is nowhere near as quick or driveable as it was before !
Any further questions then feel free to ask !!
JJ
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Should of had a look at this last week!
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Should of had a look at this last week!
I wasn't 100% sure of the history of mine at purchase, it had most of a service history, but a couple of gaps. So I booked it in for a B service, so everthing is in tip top shape now. Turned out my spark plugs were standard forfour ones, NOT the superduper expensive Brabus grade ones.... so that costs a bit to put right. Well worth it though.
Doesn't hurt to give yourself a starting point now you've got the car.
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Other options - Large opening Sunroof, panoramic roof, headlamp washers, HID's (with headlamp washers),
auto lights/wipers (think thats about it!!)
you sure about HID lighting? never recall seeing it on the options list
(You are 100% correct...never were an option. - CrazyG)
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I have to say, I bought mine a bit blind. I knew very little about them, other than when they were new I read all the road tests and thought "I really want one of those, when I can afford it". Then, just after my last Subaru died, I was looking for another car, something sporty, but with rear seats, but fancying a change from a subaru, having had several of them, I saw this Brabus. The rest, as they say, was history. I was lucky, as touching wood, and past performance is no guarrenttee of future success etc, so far it has been a good one. The previous owner came across as someone who really cared about his cars and was passionet about it and clearly knew his stuff. I have a big file of receipts, as well as the stamps in the book. The couple of little things wrong with it, that every used car has, he was very honest about.
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Out of interest this afternoon I had a 'trawl' on Autotrader
at any ForFour (454's) that were for sale.
:o ???
Not a single Brabus for sale !
Only 2 CDI's...and few 1.3's..... in fact surprisingly few
of any model 454. I'm wondering if a lot of owners have
decided to SORN them as they're possibly working from
home and not commuting.
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Mine is SORNed and has no MOT - and so is the wife’s BMW
Just been using the EV for the last 10months
JJ
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These cars are too old in general to appear in Autotrader. Most are now in the old banger categorisation in people's minds hence you will find them advertised on Gumtree, Facebook, and similar. I haven't looked but I would think there afar fewer cars of any type being sold during lockdown than normally happens in a January
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Hi,
as for the transmission it is a Gertrag and the first versions are not so bulletproof. The latest Number is 2500A224 from Mitsubishi which i have changed.
Of course in such old cars also the suspension parts are weak, on the front axle is everything easy to change. Rear axle is a sh*t work to change the two bearings/mountings. Mitsubishi sales the whole axle, which would be my choice on the next maintenance. Much easier.
Also almost every part that is "Brabus-speicific" is not available any more by Mercedes/Smart. So you will have problems getting parts especially interior/exterior etc. Everything that is Mitsubishi 4G15T/Gertrag etc is good available. Just tellin cause i'm doing a full restoration of my, since every Brabus car in germany is crap in our times / in year 2021.
Exhaust manifold will also by most broken leaky.
Be aware of guys that do only "chiptuning" maps etc on stock hardware. Even stock the exchaust system and intercooler is totally crap, with stupid position of catalyst etc. Since the car has no oil cooler you will strain engine with just "maping". When you have done a good job then engine will produce even with stock map much more torque. And as for mapping -> always custom progging on dyno AFTER you have done hardware modifications.
AS for 2021 i wouldnt recommend anybody to buy a Brabus, it is much easier buying a Colt CZT cause of production numbers and spare parts avalaibilty.
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So now you have really mucked me up. Love my 1.5 AMT, retire in April want a brabus, then thinking diesel 454 as easy to play with to have more fun, then new laws, not worth investing in diesel car. Then OK go brabus. Now been told no, also told will niss 6 speed box, which I love, with my paddle shift. So can I throw some money at my 1.5 looking for 10 to 15% more fun
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The 1.5 naturally aspirated / open deck engine and AMT is no way comparison to the closed deck turbocharged 4G15T. Maybe a standard 454 looks similar to a Brabus but when you would drive both with closed eyes you would think that they are two totally different cars. I've gained more torque on my 4G15T since bought that car then a whole 1.5 naturally aspirated engine has at all. Also the AMT is a lame duck while changing gears etc. Also the front axle is different to Brabus etc.
Every cent you throw on a naturally aspired engine is waisting of time and money, you can not gain something significant. With classic engine tuning on naturally aspired like camshafts/flywheels/exhaust etc you are gaining only a few horsepower on the top ob rpm range. You will never have torque starting from low rpm which is common named as = perfomance cause Air + Gas will be always the same. You can not put more Air to your engine to take also more gas and get more performance.
Keep the money, sell it and buy something turbocharged which has potencial to be improved. If it is a Brabus or something totaly else, there are much better options for performance cars with good parts avalaibility etc.
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This was the debate I was having with myself a few years ago when I was looking to get back into the 454 community. If you buy a NA engined 454, you aren't going to get much more performance for the investment you put into it. I therefore made the decision I did on overall noise. The 1.1 I found buzzes happily but I don't have a problem with my 4A90 1.3 (the 4A91 1.5 was a option but at the time, I was doing really short trips so didn't make a lot of sense for me). Ultimately, a replacement air filter and switch of wheels was enough. Mine is/was more a show car and that is OK.
If I wanted to go amateur racing (which I've been musing on and off with), I'd get a manual CDI in a heartbeat but when I am going down a straight road, I can make mine scream all the way up to the redline and be happy with it. I know the AMT box in my car is flawed (though personally, I don't have an issue with it), I know there are far, far better vehicles from a technical perspective but it isn't all about the raw stats. If I wanted a 454 Brabus, I'd be prepared to drive LHD (I do anyway with my 2001 City-Coupe CDI) and am not afraid to tear it down. Its all about what you want out of these things at the end of the day.
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Hope you can/will find something in 'half good' condition. Everything i found here whas crap and so i'm restoring almost everything on that car. But i knew that while buying it / whas a personal driven decision from my past. Not logical at all to put more money in that car then it have cost new xD But its ok for a daily bitch / practical car for city etc.
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I think I still have time to think about things, but it will be a smart. It about fun. One of the best cars I have had is a Cooper Ed mini moke just a blast of fun. And a total of 17 people in it at one time. And the ATM is flawed
But still a bag of fun
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Yes Mini Cooper S / JCW etc. will be much more fun, much more tuning parts avalaible, much more used cars avalaible etc. Unfortunately i cant repair them by myself so i decided to go with the Brabus which i already knew from my past.
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Sorry but think you are thinking of the wrong mini.
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Haha, yes of course i whas thinking of the fast Minis, since it is a competitor to the Brabus / better then the Brabus
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AMT is not the best...but acceleration figs for 1.5 AMT v 1.5 manual
show the AMT is quicker to 60mph. Gear spread/band is better.
If AMT has a re-teach and adjust every year then it should be ok
for most owners who do general driving. Anyone with an AMT
that does a lot of town driving would benefit from having that
done every 6-9 months rather than yearly.
And yes...any normally aspirated (NA) petrol will never manage
much more than a 5% increase in output with the right 'mods'.
The Brabus and CDI (both turbo'd) can gain far more with a
remap and little else. With a few mods it can be even more.
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And yes...any normally aspirated (NA) petrol will never manage
much more than a 5% increase in output with the right 'mods'..
i would have to disagree with your statement of 'never manage much more than a 5% increase'
while i agree that modifying a n/a is pointless and the costs will out weigh the power gains, Smart offered a tuning pack for the 1.5 n/a, as you and the majority here are well aware of (SB3) and it took the power from 109bhp to 122bhp, which is a 12% increase in power. i haven't driven a standard 1.5 but im pretty sure the 12% power gain will be noticeable.
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Dont forged that torque wins races and PS just sells Cars for standard users.
What do you need a few horsepower on the top end of rpm? For +5km/h TopSpeed?! Redicilious. What you really need is torque from low rpm to get performance and acceleration and climb the rpm scale fast.
The most important thing on a engine is the torque diagramm. Not top End PS.
I know the difference from a supercharged SL55 and a N/A SL63. Last one has +25PS TopEnd but looses every straight line race / every comparison cause its 700Nm@2000rpm vs 630Nm@5250(!)rpm.
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...I'm wondering if a lot of owners have
decided to SORN them...
Not decided, but forced by circumstance, in my case. The MOT expired just before Christmas 2019, and due to health reasons I opted to park up and leave it until the new year. Things didn't get better before the coronavirus came along, and aside from putting the bins out three times I've been indoors since February, therefore it's ended up on the SORN list. Every time I'm at the kitchen sink I look at it out on the drive, and I absolutely ache to drive it again and hear that Brabus grrrowl when I turn the key. Last summer someone stuck a note under the wiper asking did I want to sell it, being as it hadn't moved for a long time. I sent a text to the given number saying that isn't ever going to happen. When this all eventually ends I'm going to be driving my dog to every beach in the North of Scotland.
Sidebar: this has been on Autotrader since at least last spring, which probably means it's overpriced. Looks like a fun option for local pottering though, just so long as it isn't raining.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202003178503651?onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&postcode=ab387bw&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&year-to=2020&model=CROSSBLADE&make=SMART&sort=relevance&page=1
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Hi, newbie on the forum here, but a black brabus 56 owner since 2009. I'm looking to sell it this month, I'll put in the 'marketplace' forum soon. I'd rather sell it to someone who wants it/appreciates it from here, it's in good nick, apart from alloys, s2smarts has taken care of it for years. I can't see a single other forfour brabus for sale at the mo!
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Sidebar: this has been on Autotrader since at least last spring, which probably means it's overpriced. Looks like a fun option for local pottering though, just so long as it isn't raining.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202003178503651?onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&postcode=ab387bw&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&year-to=2020&model=CROSSBLADE&make=SMART&sort=relevance&page=1
Or try here? https://es.wallapop.com/item/smart-crossblade-cabrio-2003-440117402 - if you don't mind going to Ibiza to pick it up. For such a rare car, I found 2 or 3 for sale pretty quickly. My guess is the economic squeeze is forcing a lot of these sales.
So... it's a lot cheaper in Spain (for a change) but that one has 21k km on the clock, while the one you linked only has 82 miles on the odometer... it's a car to be put in a private collection, really.
Sure there's no doors, no roof, no windscreen - but also very little weight. I'll bet it's like a little go-kart to drive.
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You're correct that, sadly, it probably will end up in a collection and continue to be unused. The Spanish one has a better chance of some life though, because of the obvious weather advantage. I reckon they'll be brilliant for scooting about a resort on sunny days, no matter where.
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Think there is one of those for sale Uxbridge, car showroom , also not as good as my mini moke
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Agreed.....more or less anyone can work on a Mini Moke without the need
or necessity for any electronic diagnostics gadgets etc. Ah such memories...
The only thing I would do if I had a Moke right now would be to swap out
the points and condenser for an optical ignition conversion...a defo must have.
Something like a Lumenition, as that's what I had on seriously modified
Morris 'Moggy' Minor 1000. Well that's what it started life as !
(Slammed 3 inches, disc brake converted fronts, 1340cc lump, 3branch,
40DCOE carb, straight cut 1275 Midget gearbox, straight thru exhaust,
banded 13" wheels, uprated shocks etc etc).
It were fun driving that about way back in the early 70's...
in a way it's how I feel when driving my modified 451..... ;D
(except it has to have a diagnostic..). :'(
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Totally agree no need for stars computer, twist distributor till the engine sounded good and that was the timing done,